Windows users: What would it take to make you jump to Linux?

You name it.

I can think of many off the top of my head that may be a roadblock for many:
QuickBooks
Quicken
Games
Adobe Products

Share your comments with me, I'm interested.
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A reason?

I need everything to work with no bullshit driver problems. Everything got much better for a while there, but driver compatibility with popular hardware seems to be on the decline again.

Examples:
I wanted to go to ubuntu fulltime on my work laptop, but the driver support for the x1600 radeon mobility is absolute crap.

We need to provide a client with a bunch of temporary thin clients. We have 15 hp dc5700 nice workstations sitting in the back. Pretty much every single flavor of linux has issues with the broadcom gigabit nics and newer intel onboard graphics on them.

Dual monitor support in linux sucks ass, even with an nvidia card with the nice configuration screen.

Our technical support software uses an ActiveX control because the developers were lazy fuckers. I can get most of it working using IE4LINUX or whatever it's called with some wine action, but it's just not graceful. Wine needs a couple more years to really iron out the last few wrinkles in the XP generation software... I have to say though, wine has really come a long way in the last few years and it's definitely impressive.

The bottom line is that linux can be as powerful and stable as anything, but it will never be mainstream until it 'just works' like Windows tends to. Some jackass will prly say "WINDOZ DUSNT JUST WURK ITS CRAP LAWL IDYUT" but they will be living in a fantasy-bubble. Windows is still far far ahead of linux in terms of ease of administration in environments where the sys admins can't powertrip on every little thing, like the managed services environment that I work in.

Ease of desktop administration, such as active directory based policy's that can auto run/ install any program I choose remotely on said desktop without me having to go to the shop floor and manually install everything.. We use HP radia here.. Ive used SMS clients before and of course AD group policy's on bootup that will auto install programs, updates, patches, you name it. From a local sys admin, the hassle is just too big. I have machines that run some hardcore equipment.. and if they are down, for any reason what so ever, the company looses money.

Windows just works like cast said... When I need to install a program, or execute a defrag, or any of the many things I do remotely or with startup/shutdown scripts, I just want it to work and to keep me from having to touch the machine. It needs to work quickly, and it needs to function correctly atleast 95% of the time. This can be done in linux and can be done somewhat well, but its not NEARLY refined enough of a process. It takes time away from users, and it takes my time away as well.

Computability is a big issue. Way to many places work where they have inhouse, proprietary software that was written in the dark ages. The compatibility with windows is rarely a problem.. 3.1 - 95 - 98 - xp or even the nt - 2k - xp route works with very little issues.. some minor registry changes, or a company issued patch can fix it.. running it in compatibility mode from an NTFS box requires almost nothing... but moving proprietary software over to a linux base platform just isnt feasible.. the software pretty much has to be rewritten or replaced, which cannot always happen.

Driver issues can be a major pita also.. On our engineering machines and our dev machines that run some high end rendering software with specialty cards, or numerous other little applications around here I could foresee issues.


Then there is the whole "train the users" end of things. They know the basics of windows.. they know office.. they know outlook.. and they know IE. Most people know nothing about machines and moving them to a system where everything is different would be neither cost effective or time effective for my department... I dont work somewhere with a mostly young, technical savy crowd.. most people are shop floor workers, or older people in the offices. If the users cant navigate their own OS... how am I going to get anything done besides baby sitting and ass wiping?
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My own mother, the world's least tech savvy person uses Kubuntu Linux. I explain the exact same things to her on linux as I did on windows.

I understand driver issues. I understand proprietary software issues. I understand active directory style administration.

The problem with the last three issues is that they are circular. Hardware manufacturers don't write drivers for linux because they make most of their money from windows customers. Some even feel that linux customers expect everything to be free as in beer. I'd argue that is untrue, I'll pay more for an intel wireless and have it just work than I would a broadcom and have to mess with it for 10 minutes to get it to work.

The problem with proprietary software, most of the time the guy with the money funding the development of their software doesn't know about linux, and has barely heard about macs. Some even don't know there are other OSs. My father works for a company where this is an issue, hell half the programmers don't realize there is anything else.

Active Directory. Such a pain in the ass. I've not found a end all be all solution to this, though there are solutions. http://www.quest.com/ http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles_tutorials/Authenticating-Linux-Active-Directory.html http://www.linux.com/articles/40983 and LDAP
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Figuratively, fuck that.

Don't get me wrong, if the drivers for my laptop didn't suck and I could use something more than a bare bones window manager I would make it happen for myself at work. For certain types of servers and network monitoring, linux is godly. I still have Ubuntu as a secondary OS on my laptop just because I've run into a couple of situations where I needed proper nix tools when working with ESX server.

It's just that it's still impossible to expect mass adoption when there is still so much grief and pain associated with migrating on the desktops for many people. The driver situations I've ran into on relatively popular hardware have just left me with a bad impression, and the poor multi monitor support is a deal killer for newbies.

broke down and stuck vista on my gaming machine when I got an 8800gts... When's the linux directx10 support coming again? vista is a dog even on good hardware...

quote:

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When's the linux directx10 support coming again?

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quote:

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Originally posted by blu:
A reason?

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You're right, it is not free as in beer. I it free as in freedom. So, if you're comfortable with a closed source OS built with a nice healthy backdoor for your government to exploit put there intentionally, then stick with it.
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Figuratively, fuck that.

Oh crap here comes the political, hate Bush talk again...
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I am ZondorTheCondor!

This was arranged during the Clinton administration.
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Figuratively, fuck that.

quote:

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Originally posted by TehDanMan:
My own mother, the world's least tech savvy person uses Kubuntu Linux. I explain the exact same things to her on linux as I did on windows.

I understand driver issues. I understand proprietary software issues. I understand active directory style administration.

The problem with the last three issues is that they are circular. Hardware manufacturers don't write drivers for linux because they make most of their money from windows customers. Some even feel that linux customers expect everything to be free as in beer. I'd argue that is untrue, I'll pay more for an intel wireless and have it just work than I would a broadcom and have to mess with it for 10 minutes to get it to work.

The problem with proprietary software, most of the time the guy with the money funding the development of their software doesn't know about linux, and has barely heard about macs. Some even don't know there are other OSs. My father works for a company where this is an issue, hell half the programmers don't realize there is anything else.

Active Directory. Such a pain in the ass. I've not found a end all be all solution to this, though there are solutions. http://www.quest.com/ http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles_tutorials/Authenticating-Linux-Active-Directory.html http://www.linux.com/articles/40983 and LDAP

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I made it a point to skip all above posts to reply without being persuaded.



For me to change to some form of *nix it would take the following (in no particular order):

- easy GUI (windows like). that is what makes me like using windows. It all makes sense. It is all easy. it works for my dad the same way it works for me. it is easy

- games. I play games on my computer and want that ability on a *nix system. I should not have to pick and choose, either. if there is a game out I want the ability to easily play it on the system.

- applications. see games only change the word games to applications.

- hardware. it needs to work, period. if I buy a cdrom I know it works on my windowsxp machine. i want that trust on my *nix system.
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More to your actual question:

Desktop wise, I use my PC for games, browsing, and watching web based video (I dont have cable/satalite so I watch stuff online when I feel like it.. discovery, comedy central, espn, etc).

When I get back to my house after work, I want my machine to function, have no issues, require nothing but for me to fire up the o'l firefox and browse wherever I choose, or to begin a game. No hassles. No fights. It just works completely and cooperates with what I want to do.

I run a dual boot system.. except when my stupid ass maxtor sata drive dies like it currently is so Im on xp only... Somtimes I post from mozilla on that partition.. but mostly on my windows drive.

The only time I really boot into my kde install is to play around.. test things, break and fix things.. I see it as more of a challenge to use and play with than windows.
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“Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made,” Otto von Bismarck

Personally the reasons I still use windows is primarily Quicken and Games. Although one other reason is the fact that I know what I'm doing when it comes to windows so I'm more comfortable in a windows environment. Currently I don't have time to switch over and try to learn, although that will change in a few weeks. Another reason is battery life on laptops, I haven't tried it yet, but from what I've heard is that on a Latitude D400 battery life is less in Linux than on windows, I'm currently running windows xp pro, and I can squeeze about 2.5 to 3 hours of life out of the battery while I'm up at school, although I could work with less battery life, I would need at least 2 hours of battery life.

I know if I do migrate to some other platform, the quicken portion of stuff will be a pain, since even to migrate over to a mac, I would need to export out my quicken stuff, and then import it into quicken for mac, really pissed me off when I learned I couldn't just back up and restore to the mac.
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Unless proven otherwise, you are a 50yr old man with a bucket of KFC in one hand and your penis in the other.

Using Linux doesn't really scare me. Being a former Mac switcher, there are a lot of similarities. Athough if given a choice, I still would choose Mac, rather OS X. It's not so much the hardware as it is the OS. Don't get me wrong, their hardware is sexy looking I just feel that they are bit too pricey.
Anyhow, more on the quesion, it's not so much the lack of software or the ease of use that scare's people away. It's ignorance and fear of change. For example, people get so used to using Notepad that the minute you show them gedit, they forget how to use a keyboard.
Until the generations break out of the technical rut, Linux nor even OS X will be the top of the market food chain and widely accepted.
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I am ZondorTheCondor!

I worked in an all-linux shop for several years. I ran about 20 servers and about 50 desktops that were all linux.

The one thing that it tought me about the way I use my computer is that I just want it to work, and I don't want to "work" for it. Computers are a tool, no more or less than a garden hoe or a hammer. They should work in spite of themselves. I have left a career path that focused on the machine as the objective, and moved toward focusing on the machine as a tool. Windows is a more useful tool than linux, on my desktop.

Linux looks and feels too kludgey, in my opinion. Interfaces that are designed by geek programmers tend to suck, unless those programmers also have design or art backgrounds. Microsoft hires artists to direct the aesthetic direction of Windows. That is why it looks polished and the UI is consistent.

I understand that there are some window managers for X11 or Xorg (or whatever the heck it is now) that look better than linux ever has, but the consistency is still missing.

That is what I don't like about linux on the desktop. It invariably looks and feels thrown together. Windows gives me a common experience. I get what I am expecting from Windows. Not so with linux.

I'll just never run it on my desktop. I play games as a big part of my job...linux doesnt work for that. I use adobe products constantly in my work...linux doesnt work for that.

On the other hand, I don't think I would put together a non-purpose-built server without linux. If I'm making a game server, the choice is limited by what platforms the game server software supports. But for a file server or other generic network resource, I'm all over linux.

Last edited by HaMMerHeD on Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total

My frustration with *nix environments is the lack of documentation that is easily accessible, easy to read, informative, and does exactly the following:

If you were in windows and wanted to defrag you would do: abc
Now that you are in linux and want to defrag, you will do: xyz

I don't always know how to ask questions in a *nix environment to get the info I need on google and when I do find the answer, its always an overly techy person giving me what he believes is a quick answer to the question but for me the answer means nothing.

I also get very tired of *nix people that are "better than everyone else".
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You should ask either DanMan or myself, we're always willing to help.

I think the Ubuntu community in general is more friendly than any Linux community in the past, and I think that has contributed to its success.

I periodically get on LinuxQuestions and go through topics that never got any responses, and try to answer to the best of my ability. It's my way of contributing back to the community that has contributed to me.
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